what the world would be like without sin

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Originally posted by Miss_Nellie_OMalley:
Imagine if you will moments of despair, loneliness, and anguish you have had in this life time. It feels as if your soul is afire. Unquinchable flames. Without God that is all you have.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As a very happy, fulfilled nontheist with a rich and rewarding life, I must take issue with this statement.

God and religion may bring joy and fulfillment to *your* life, and I'm happy for you that they do. But there are several hundred thousand of us doing just fine without God, and it would be nice if believers would accept and respect that, instead of making arrogant statements about how our lives must be nothing but "despair, loneliness" and "unquinchable (sic) flames."

I do, however, like your ideas on the nature of heaven and h_ell, Miss Nellie O'Malley. They remind me of something the actress Butterfly McQueen (who played Prissy in the movie "Gone with the Wind," and was also an atheist) once said:

"They say the streets are going to be beautiful in heaven. I'm trying to make the streets beautiful here. When it's clean and beautiful, I think America is heaven. And some people are h_ell ."

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 25, 2006 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Voice-of-Reason ]</font>

Adam and Eve were not the only inhabitants of the plant... again I point you to the nephilium. In the garden there was only one thing that was forbidden and that was eating the fruit of the tree. As far as I know that was the only rule at that time. Man was not alone in its falls and as such has had plenty of help since then in finding fun ways to irk God.

As for my comment about feeling dispair... I in NO WAY was implying that those who do not share my religious belief wander the stress miserable. I was just saying that everyone EVERY HUMAN BEING has experienced loneliness, dispair, and anguish... even christians... And as we are still part of the world we have not been removed from God's presence. No one has, not even those who do not believe. Unlike fun historical pieces of art once we kick the bucket we don't all of a sudden find ourself in heaven or **** ... if you believe the bible that is (if you aren't a christian this is nothing but a beautiful piece of mythology).. instead according to the bible no one goes anywhere until judgement day.

I am very tolerant of other people's belief. I prefer to take a sit back approach and make sure I live my life in a christlike way... by example and not word. I do not like to force feed my theologies down other people's throat... My comments on here have been for those who are christians and wish to discuss their own religion.

See not even Jesus wasted his breath on those who would not listen.

I don't think the Bible says no one goes anywhere until Judgement Day. Can you cite chapter and verse?

I also don't believe God is capable of evil. He is good, and whatever God does is good and perfect and right. Evil was a corruption by men (and, yes, angels too) of the good thing (free will) God gave us. There is no higher thing above God. There is no higher thing that says "this is right and that is wrong" which God just happens to follow perfectly. God IS rightness and goodness and Love embodied. If He said that I should do something that society thinks is wrong or that anyone says is wrong, it is still right. Anger and jealousy, etc. is not wrong in God, it is good and right.

There will be a physical **** , though...the lake of burning sulpher mentioned in Revelations...
Heaven is also a physical place...the new Jerusalem in Revlations 21 and the place where the tree and river of the water of life run in Revelations 22. Yes, **** will be total separation from God, and that will be the worst part about it.

Where in the Bible does it mention this Tarterous place thing? Cite chapter and verse please.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 25, 2006 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Tra ]</font>

No more sin would mean no more Martha Stuart, Donald Trump, or Will and Grace TV shows. Life would be perfect...
LOL

Sorry, I'm a sick person....Time to go see the nurse.

So, Nellie, all the other things people do now that are sins would not have been sins if Adam and Eve never ate the apple because that was the only sin at the time?

I tell you what.. stop asking me chapter and verse... you can just pick up the book of genisus and read it for yourself. Everything I have mentioned is there... and if you get to Abraham you've gone too far.

To each their own, I'm not here to convince or convert any one take my words as what you will. I will tell you one thing about evil and sin, man nor angels can not create anything that was not in God for they are created creatures. The creation will never surpass the creator...

As for the only sin, oh who knows... that was just a thought that came to me in passing... makes for interesting conversation... no? Nothing to support that claim actually ahahaha

Our Father in heaven is all knowing.....He knew that Adam and Eve would take from the Apple in the garden. If he didn't know, he would not have been a god.

Adam and Eve knew nothing of pain or of joy. The world was "prefect". Without the sins in the world or with out the pain we would never be happy to see a rainbow. We would never be happy to see the sun come out after the rains had darked the skies.

Food for thought.

God techniclaly IS capable of what we would clal evil. I never thought about it, but if we clal bad feelings evil, then God would be because he does get angry, he is a jealous God and says so Himself. So if we look at traits like that as being evil, then yes he is capable of it I guess. Hm, thats interesting. never thought about it before.

Yes, StarTrekCaptain, God does have those feelings, but in Him they are not bad. Only in us are they ever bad, for we corrupt things all the time. Plus we cannot control our anger, jealousy, etc and they can cause us to do bad things. Plus we have no right to have them. Does not God, Who is perfect, have a right to be angry at those who are not doing His will and jealous of the false "gods" others follow? We, on the other hand, have no right to be jealous, for we are not perfect and good and don't deserve any blessings.

Everything God does is perfect and right.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:
Yes, StarTrekCaptain, God does have those feelings, but in Him they are not bad. Everything God does is perfect and right.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But if God is perfect, and higher than human, shouldn't he be held to the same--or higher--standards as mere mortals? Shouldn't he at least follow his own commandments?

I don't think causing a wrathful flood and drowning the entire population of the world (including many innocent children, pregnant women, and unborn babies) is an admirable example of good emotional control. I think that's a deplorable way for anyone, human or god, to behave, regardless of how angry they are.

There's been a lot of talk on this board about Christians being viewed as "judgmental." However, my problem with fundamentalists is: in some aspects, they aren't judgmental *enough.* They consider too many things sacred, beyond questioning.